Caitlin Fjerstad (00:09.9)
Welcome back to another episode of the Spark podcast hosted by Dynamic Lifecycle Innovations. On the Spark podcast, we really aim to help organizations get the most value out of their IT and lifecycle programs. In this episode, we’ll be discussing the evolving state of the ITAD industry, the growing importance of the circular economy, and why global collaboration is becoming more critical than ever.

We’re excited to have with us a guest today, Darrell Fleming Kendall. He is the executive director of the Global ITAD Alliance and a longtime leader in the ITAD industry. He’s known for advancing sustainability, circular economy initiatives, and global collaboration. With over 15 years of experience in the ITAD industry, Darrell brings a unique perspective on where the industry is headed and why IT asset disposition is becoming more strategically important than ever before.

Welcome, Daryl. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (01:07.643)
Thank you. And I appreciate the invitation and the opportunity to talk with you today about ITAD and where it’s going and all the wonderful things about circular economy. So really excited. Thank you.

Caitlin Fjerstad (01:19.352)
Great. Well, we will go ahead and jump in. I gave a little bit of an intro, but for people who may know a little bit or may not know you and your background, can you give us a little bit of an overview of your career and kind of just your mission and how you got to where you’re at today for an overview?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (01:38.009)
Yeah, so I appreciate the intro and the kind words there.

My background, so when I left grad school, I came to Washington, D.C. to actually work in international development. So the whole global aspect of what we’re doing with ITAD and circular economy is really kind of the tie that binds my career track together. But it was around my third step in my career. I ended up at ISRI, now REMA, and I was the executive director of the Rios program. So working with recyclers of all

not just electronics and ITAD to really ramp up their quality environment, health and safety standards within their facilities. And I spent just about 10 years really pushing that initiative, helping to move the recycling industry forward. When I left that position, ended up, I landed with Robert working on the ITAD Summit, Mobile Disrupt, and that has just continued to grow. We’ve added the ITAD Europe Show, and now we’re adding the reverse

Logistics Expo and then we tied a couple of trade associations to it with Global ITAD Alliance and the Global Reverse Logistics Alliance. So those two are taking off. We started GIA a couple of months ago and GRLA a couple of weeks ago it feels like. So we’re really excited about where both of those are going.

Caitlin Fjerstad (02:59.576)
You

Yeah, it’s super exciting and we’ve been hearing a lot about it and seeing a lot about it too throughout just in LinkedIn, in the news articles, sorry. So really excited, excited to be a part of it as well. It’s really just cool to see that growth and where you guys are headed and we’ll get into more of that in our discussion today too. So good. Thank you for that overview. I appreciate that.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (03:22.225)
morning.

Yup.

Caitlin Fjerstad (03:26.784)
Okay, so we’re gonna shift and we’re gonna first dive into a little bit more of just the shifts within the ITAD industry landscape and kind of where things are heading today. So my first question is more around the trends and what trends you think are gonna be there to reshape the ITAD over the next decade. So what trends do you foresee, I guess, going on right now, but also probably foresee into the future that will help reshape the ITAD industry?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (03:56.185)
Yeah, so this is one of my favorite roles because I feel like being a futurist is like a promise to be wrong, but a good excuse to be wrong. So, you know, the obvious answer here, right, and the, think the topic du jour, right, is AI and the role AI is going to play within

Caitlin Fjerstad (04:04.385)
You

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (04:16.581)
not only the ITAD industry, but I think, you know, just in life in general, but ITAD in particular, it has an interesting role to play because of the fact that ITAD is going to shape the way we do business within the ITAD industry. but the AI boom and obviously all of the, all of the equipment required for that is going to find its way back into the ITAD infrastructure at some point. And so that’s something we have to think about as well is all of these data centers and things like that, that are, are.

Caitlin Fjerstad (04:21.751)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (04:46.387)
being put in. We’re a decade away from seeing them coming back into our facilities. We obviously are a big player in the conversation around material sustainability and material shortages that are undoubtedly going to start kind of creeping into the conversation over the next five to 10 years, I think even sooner. And in the case of some materials, critical minerals are obviously from a geopolitical standpoint, but also from just an access standpoint,

Caitlin Fjerstad (05:00.878)
Thank you.

Caitlin Fjerstad (05:11.587)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (05:16.339)
both of those and recyclability, right? These critical minerals, you know, from a profitability standpoint have traditionally been a commodity that we sort of tossed away, you know, as part of the excess material. And now, you know, we need to look at how do we get those materials back into the stream? How are we managing those responsibly? How are we convincing consumers, you know, like my parents who are still sitting on

piles of electronics in their closets, right? How do we convince them to responsibly get those materials back into the stream so that we can continue to develop a truly circular economy rather than continually looking for new sources, digging new holes in the ground and relying on other markets to send materials back to us when we need them?

Caitlin Fjerstad (05:48.045)
Yeah

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (06:11.169)
I think those are, those are two really big ones. And I think honestly, from a workforce development standpoint, from a workflow standpoint, from, mean, one of the conversations I had, I’m here at a conference in Nashville on the reverse logistics side, but one of the conversations we had last night was on grading standards and how AI is going to make a truly universal grading standard, a real possibility because you take the human element out of it. think it’s just AI really impacts everything in, in

Caitlin Fjerstad (06:13.784)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Fjerstad (06:38.637)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (06:40.883)
in such a deep and meaningful way that while it feels like the easy cop-out answer, it really, you know, it goes so deep into everything we do, it would be silly not to make that kind of the hot topic, right?

Caitlin Fjerstad (06:54.914)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. A couple of things that you touched on, mean, on the AI side, 100 % it allows for people to be kind of have more of that standard across the industry because right now it’s, it’s pretty dependent or can be pretty dependent on the organization and the ITAD vendor. And they could be doing something very different than another organization and different ITAD vendor. But this allows, and I think you’ll see it a lot through RFPs, more the similarities and I should say standardization and

how processes might be done, but then also how organizations are partnering with those ITAD vendors potentially as well, and making sure kind of everybody’s on the same playing field, that everybody’s doing it the same, hopefully proper way, and certified way. But yeah, I think that’s a really good take in terms of how that AI is just gonna play into the effectiveness of the ITAD programs with organizations as well.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (07:46.609)
And I just think about the buyer and seller experience. So as an ITAD, you’ve got…

we’re in a unique position where we have essentially customers on both ends, right? And having that AI evaluation tool, right? Thinking about how that AI evaluation tool can strengthen your relationship with your upstream customers. So instead of, you know, having this conversation with them where, well, you know, we think it’s worth this or, you know, this is what we can give you, right? You all of a sudden with the AI technology that we can develop, you’ll have an immediate and simplified and automated rubric for being able to

Caitlin Fjerstad (08:13.058)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (08:23.427)
immediately provide value estimates and things like that to your upstream customers in a way that takes the human element out of it and really just kind of think strengthens that relationship because there’s no unpredictability right and it doesn’t create a situation where you’re even if it’s not happening right the illusion that there is you know

low balling or you’re not providing enough value or whatever, all of that disappears if you can automate everything and use AI to do the, to evaluate the value of that equipment. And I think it’s really cool all of the ways that AI is going to infiltrate what we’re doing. And if we’re smart about it, right, it’s not going to impact our ability to bring on a very human workforce. It’s just going to force us to change how those people are working and what that looks like.

Caitlin Fjerstad (08:46.061)
Yeah.

Caitlin Fjerstad (08:54.754)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Fjerstad (09:09.238)
Yeah, right. It’s not necessarily that it’s replacing people, it’s just improving the processes and allowing the people to do more of what is needed for that human touch and really kind of enhance that part of as well. So both both sides of the process level up essentially then. Yeah, cool. The other thing you touch on too is just that circularity piece. So kind of diving into that more. How do you think or how should the industry be communicating sustainability impact?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (09:23.876)
Absolutely.

Caitlin Fjerstad (09:36.95)
more, you know, as we dive into more of that and have more conversations about it, how do you think that should be communicated more effectively?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (09:43.493)
Well, this is one of the core elements of GIA and why GIA was created, right? I view the role of the Global ITAD Alliance to be the conductor of an orchestra, right?

If you think about all of the different players in the industry, dynamic, ERI, CX tech, and then you go outside to the adjacent industries, right? The software providers, the data destruction or data management tools, right? All of these things, all of them are different instruments. They’re very different sounds, tell a very different story, have very different roles within that orchestra. But if we can provide everybody a sheet of music and we can get everybody playing from that sheet of music in a way that is harmonious and really

creating a beautiful sound, right, about the ITAD industry. The GIA’s role is to conduct the orchestra in a way that the audience then understands completely and fully the role that ITAD plays and how valuable they are as an industry, how valuable we are to consumers, to enterprise in protecting them, in providing material sustainability, in creating a circular economy, in protecting our environment, all of these things. So think one of the other things that, you know, I failed to mention on the first question is

Caitlin Fjerstad (10:47.821)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (10:54.583)
You know, the, the role of ITAD, know, in five years, we’re not going to have to, as ITADs, as the ITAD industry, we’re not going have to explain to people what ITAD is. It’s going to become just common knowledge of what the industry is and what we do, because it is becoming so important and people are so sensitive about, you know, their data and where it’s going and how it’s handled. and, and really, you know, the, the conversation around environment circularity is just, it’s going to continue to, to get louder and louder. And, and we hope to be one of the biggest.

megaphones in that conversation.

Caitlin Fjerstad (11:27.412)
Awesome. I love how you use the analogy of an orchestra, the way you were explaining that. feel like that’s so true in terms of like being able to play off the same sheet of music and then the audience understanding and hearing it and kind of seeing that come together. So thanks for painting that picture.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (11:40.497)
I was a band nerd. was a tuba player in marching band all the way through college. So it’s a very natural one for me to use. It’s an easy metaphor.

Caitlin Fjerstad (11:46.616)
There we go, nice.

Caitlin Fjerstad (11:51.278)
I played the oboe. I didn’t make it quite as far, but it was great. It was a great experience.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (11:57.333)
So you can play us out with the Godfather or with the Godfather theme song. There you go.

Caitlin Fjerstad (12:01.1)
Sure. So talking about how you mentioned in the next five years, people are going to understand what ITAD is and not have to have more of an explanation of it. One question that I had for you is, what do enterprise organizations, what do you think they still misunderstand about ITAD? And maybe they won’t in five years when it becomes more common knowledge. But what do you think today people still misunderstand about ITAD?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (12:27.675)
You know, I think we’ve come a long way from being, you know, a pickup service, right? We, know, 10 years ago, we were having the conversations about elevating the discourse about what we do from being a courier service with that handles electronic devices when they’re no longer valuable to being a service based industry that also processes equipment, things like that. I think.

Caitlin Fjerstad (12:33.816)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Fjerstad (12:51.854)
I’m fine.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (12:56.881)
Uh, the key shift that I want to see in five years, particularly in the conversation with enterprise, um, particularly in the conversation with OEMs is, um, the shift from, are a participant in the circular economy, um, to we are the keystone of the circular economy, right? There is no circle. If we’re not taking it back, we’re not processing equipment. we’re not refurbishing reselling, maximizing the life of the device before we’re

dismantling and sending to, you know, recycling and things like that. But, you know, we really have allowed for a long time, the OEMs to dictate the conversation around circular economy. We’ve allowed enterprises to really, you know, talk about their, you know, their positive impact through, you know, because they’re sending their devices through an ITAD, things like that. And as an industry, just, and I think some of this is just about the maturity of

Caitlin Fjerstad (13:53.56)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (13:56.707)
the industry, right? know, John Shigerian last year sort of, I think very articulately compared the ITAD industry to a baseball game, right? And said, you know, we’re currently in the second inning of the ITAD baseball game, right? And so when you think about there’s nine, there’s seven innings to go, right? Nine innings in a game.

Caitlin Fjerstad (14:14.732)
Yeah.

Caitlin Fjerstad (14:18.178)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (14:19.449)
We’ve got a long way to go, right? But I think, know, ending three, ending four, when we talk about it in those terms, really is about us stepping up, finding our voice, really talking about our role in circularity and material management, material sustainability.

and really ensuring that enterprises understand that we’re not a service, we’re first of all a partner and we are the key to much of their sustainability plan. When you think about it, for the first time really,

Caitlin Fjerstad (14:51.928)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (14:55.535)
you know, companies are forced to consider the impact of these devices that have made their jobs infinitely easier over the last two to three decades. We’re really kind of forcing the conversation around what is the impact that those devices have and how do you, you know, how do you give back to the environment in a way that, you know, is functional helpful. And, and ITADs are a huge, a massive piece of that. And we just haven’t done a great job of articulating that. And so I think, you

Caitlin Fjerstad (15:02.957)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Fjerstad (15:22.486)
Absolutely.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (15:25.459)
But that’s really kind of, think, how we shift the conversation with the enterprises. really gotten particularly to the big enterprises, right? The small medium enterprises, we still have a long way to go in terms of helping them really understand all of the services and all of the things that happen to their devices when they go to a high quality, high integrity ITAD facility. But.

Caitlin Fjerstad (15:29.838)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Fjerstad (15:48.802)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (15:51.745)
know, the particularly the large enterprises really have come to understand just how important ITADs are and their ecosystem. We just need to change the conversation.

Caitlin Fjerstad (16:02.284)
Yeah, I think on that too, talking about circularity, absolutely. And when you mentioned the differences between being transactional and being kind of a true partner, I think that’s really important. There’s so many different things that could come into play around the sustainability and the effectiveness of that, the certifications, the risk with all the data that’s in the world now and all the different pieces of devices that have data on it. But when you’re kind of

dialing it back to the differences between being that more transactional vendor versus really being a strategic ITAD partner. What do you think separates those distinctions?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (16:42.243)
It’s relationship. mean, look, at the end of the day, you know, and this is a conversation we were having yesterday as well is, know, we can as an industry, we can be known for taking devices, selling them off, getting whatever value we can, you know, and providing that service, right? Or…

Caitlin Fjerstad (17:02.304)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (17:04.067)
we can be seen as a true partner in the conversation, in the ecosystem, for our enterprise partners, for the community, in providing a level of consultancy, right? So.

Caitlin Fjerstad (17:20.461)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (17:20.657)
We can, if we walk in, we can provide education on data security issues, right? We can talk about what’s the latest and greatest in data security and data management. How is it that you as an ITAD are protecting that, you know, that particular company or the folks that are, know, I mean, most ITADs at this point have some sort of community day or whatever where they do a collection. Like, how do you educate my mother, right? Who is convinced that, bless her heart,

Caitlin Fjerstad (17:48.065)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (17:50.563)
everybody wants to steal pictures of her precious grandchildren. And I’m like, I promise you, that’s not what they’re looking for. But how do you educate them? How do you educate the community on what exactly happened? How do you alleviate the mystery around secondary lifecycle management? What happens to this device between now and when it ends up on a

Caitlin Fjerstad (17:53.838)
You

Caitlin Fjerstad (18:09.869)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (18:17.807)
Resale platform. What happens is device when it no longer has value and is getting recycled. What does that look like? How, what are we doing? How are we handling it? What are the materials we’re pulling out of it? I mean, all of these conversations, really, if we’re providing that information back, we go from being a transactional, you know, a, you know, want to buy, want to sell kind of situation, right? And look, there’s a place for that. I mean, there’s, there’s absolutely a place for that, that sort of interaction. I think though.

Caitlin Fjerstad (18:41.251)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (18:47.731)
as the ITAD industry evolves, we have a really interesting opportunity to be thought leaders, to be partners, to be educators, and really create a completely different conversation with our enterprise partners and with the community that allows us to really kind of shine in a way that other industries would love to have the opportunity and maybe just don’t because of the nature of their work. So I think we need to take full advantage of that.

Caitlin Fjerstad (19:15.17)
Yeah, absolutely. And I agree. think it’s a lot of that. You mentioned the word consultancy, and I think that is just spot on. It’s what kind of elevates from that transactional to a true partnership and just more a strategic partnership. want, I mean, organizations, staffing everywhere is tight. So you want an organization that’s going to support you and be an extension of your team, essentially. Like, if I’m an IT leader at an organization,

And I know my team is tight, know, small but mighty teams do a lot these days. And if I have a partner versus a transactional vendor, but if I have a strategic partner, they’re going to be kind of a part of the team. And to your point, they’re going to help educate in terms of the recycling, in terms of the community side, they’re going to help probably bring ideas of innovation or whatever it is that makes both teams lives a lot easier too.

and just make it probably more successful and advantageous for both as well.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (20:13.265)
Yeah, know, I would also say.

Interestingly, the board, when we got together to create the GIA, the board of directors, think very wisely included an IT asset manager member type for GIA, right? And it’s actually a free, it’s our only individual member type and it’s free, right? So we’re encouraging IT asset managers to come be a part of GIA for exactly the reasons you talked about. If they’re coming and have participating in our events, showing up and having conversations with

Caitlin Fjerstad (20:30.487)
Yeah.

Caitlin Fjerstad (20:34.67)
Great.

Caitlin Fjerstad (20:39.117)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (20:46.087)
us and we’re having conversations with them, we have eliminated a giant barrier in terms of the way that the market operates, the way our industry operates by understanding better what it is that they’re dealing with. And they understand better how, you know, what we’re going through, what we’re dealing with, the challenges that, you know,

the evolving material streams and things like that, all introduced to what we’re doing. So I think it’s a really cool way to kind of facilitate that through the alliance. But yeah, you’re 100 % right. If those two-way conversations are happening, everybody’s better off.

Caitlin Fjerstad (21:22.056)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that’s awesome that GA is providing that just that space for having a lot of that collaboration too, because I think that’s just going to be instrumental when we look at the future of ITAD as well. So that’s wonderful. One more question that I have to just in general about the ITAD industry. We’ve been hearing a lot more about mergers and acquisitions as well as private equity within the ITAD industry. And I feel like the conversations about it have just increased over the last year to two years maybe.

Do you see a large impact or what kind of impact do you feel that’s having on the services that ITAD vendors provide, but also the industry as a whole?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (22:01.529)
Yeah, I think, you know, it’s a sign of a maturing industry when VCs and things are coming in and investing in the industry. When &A is happening at a pretty solid pace. I I feel like every day I open.

Caitlin Fjerstad (22:14.689)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (22:20.785)
I open up my laptop and find a notification of some sort of another merger happening or an acquisition happening. And I think really all it’s going to do is strengthen the industry. think I don’t.

Caitlin Fjerstad (22:29.164)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (22:37.681)
You know, the industry is growing so quickly in turn. I mean, when we look at the, the, the take back percentages and the opportunities we have, mean, it is, the universe is massive, right? The pie is getting bigger. And I don’t think we have to consider the problem of, you know, one ITAD, know, cannibalizing another ITAD piece of the pie because the pie is just getting bigger. And as the pie gets bigger, everybody’s piece gets bigger. And, you know, there’s more work, there’s more opportunity, which again, AI is going to help with all that.

Caitlin Fjerstad (22:48.995)
Yes.

Caitlin Fjerstad (22:57.239)
Right.

Caitlin Fjerstad (23:07.0)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (23:07.815)
&A and the investment into the industry is just going to help drive innovation, it’s going to help drive leadership. And while that really is going to push the top level higher.

It’s going to bring the small and medium size enterprises along with it, right? Because those guys still need a wide partnership network, right? And they need those smaller, the smaller ITADs that maybe have a very niche operation or work in a very specific area. They’re going to need all of those things. And so, you know, they’re going to create an environment that allows those companies to thrive within the space that they have sort of carved out for themselves. And I think it’s just,

Caitlin Fjerstad (23:23.468)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Fjerstad (23:33.292)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (23:52.971)
It’s nothing but good for the ITAD industry. And of course, you know, there’s…

predominantly winners. mean, there’s not a lot of, you know, there’s not a lot of, you know, situations where you look at &A and investment and you go, you know, clearly there was a loser in that conversation. It generally is a very positive thing. you know, I’m very excited to see, you know, five years from now, what that looks like. And, you know, if there are, you know, sort of global names that start to, you know, rise to the top in a way that we don’t really have right now, so.

Caitlin Fjerstad (24:12.416)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Fjerstad (24:23.788)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Wonderful. Thank you for talking on that. I appreciate that. It’s just been happening a lot more. So I wanted to make sure we could include that in discussion. I also want to make sure we have some time to learn a little bit more about Global ITAD Alliance, or GIA as it’s referred to sometimes as well. So can you explain a little bit more about what the Global ITAD Alliance is? I know you already mentioned a handful of conferences and how it’s growing and making more of an impact, which is wonderful. But if you could dive a little bit deeper into that.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (24:30.618)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (24:53.007)
Yeah, so, you know.

The ITAD Summit is now in its eighth or ninth year, something like that. And we really have created a community around the ITAD industry and the sort of adjacent partners that we have that support the ITAD community. And it was really last year at the ITAD Summit, we were walking around and somebody said, isn’t it a shame the energy has to die on Thursday? And that was really kind of the catalyst to push the GIA forward. And so then in September, we got together, a group of leaders in the industry got together

Caitlin Fjerstad (25:17.742)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (25:24.563)
We just said, hey, let’s flesh out what an alliance looks like, what an association looks like, and let’s build it. We launched in December, and our mission really is to raise the profile of ITAD, both inside the industry, but with enterprises, OEMs, with communities, to provide education on what ITAD is and what it does. But then also to provide, you know, we spend two days at the ITAD Summit, right, for example, learning everything that we can, jamming as much information as we can into 25 sessions.

and then sending you on your way and hoping you remember even a portion of it when you get home. Now for the GIA, we have a really interesting opportunity to do what we’re calling the GIA Institute, which is monthly or bimonthly webinars.

Caitlin Fjerstad (25:55.65)
you

Caitlin Fjerstad (25:59.788)
Right.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (26:08.029)
in the months that we don’t have a show, where we can do training around the latest and greatest in data destruction or how AI is being implemented in the industry or workforce development issues, how changing drug laws are going to impact your HR policies, right? All of these things are really, really beneficial to your companies. Our goal is to provide that to you while also then creating a whole bunch of, you talk about AI.

Caitlin Fjerstad (26:22.851)
Great.

Caitlin Fjerstad (26:26.51)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (26:31.927)
Using AI to really modernize the association experience. Like I sort of joked that the last thing I want to do is recreate your grandfather’s fish dinner, pat each other on the back about the great things we’ve done for the industry kind of association. And we really want to be forward thinking about how we’re using technology and tools to remaster networking and to remaster business opportunities and really create a, an ecosystem of, ethically operating ITADs and, and, and support industries that

Caitlin Fjerstad (26:45.891)
Yeah.

Caitlin Fjerstad (26:50.37)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (27:01.811)
really just kind of takes everything to the next level. Really makes that music harmonious, beautiful, right?

Caitlin Fjerstad (27:08.718)
Yeah, absolutely. Way to tie it back there too. No, I think that’s awesome. And it’s so wonderful to hear, you know, it’s not just, as you said, like this, this one time of year, the one event a year, the two events a year, but that ongoing training is so beneficial for everybody, no matter what kind of, if you’re playing the music, if you’re in the audience, it’s so helpful to tie everything together consistently too. Because, you know, when you, heard it once,

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (27:11.375)
There you go.

Caitlin Fjerstad (27:34.604)
Don’t quote me on the percentages, but when you hear in terms of like presentations and trainings, you only take away about 10 % of that. When you are actually like writing it down, it’s closer to about 30%, but when you’re practicing it or working through that consistently, it’s closer to 50%. Probably never gonna be 100%, but the more to your point of that consistency and kind of continually training on it and practicing on it on a monthly basis of these different topics and how they’re all woven together, the more likely it’s gonna be able to stick and really truly

have GIA helped make an impact in all these enterprises and just organizations and what they’re doing. So that’s wonderful.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (28:08.624)
What?

look, when you go to a conference, I mean, it happens to everybody. despite our, no matter how much planning you put into it, and we do like a pre-show webinar for all of our shows, right? And I talk about this huge, no matter how much you write down and whatever, you get on the airplane, fly home from Vegas or Miami or Nice, right? For the ITAD Europe show. You fly home and you’ve got all of this energy. You’re so excited and you’re like, I’m going to implement this and this and this and this, and we’re going to do this and this, and I’m going to, I’m going to take this to the operations director. And then you land and you get to the facility on Monday.

Caitlin Fjerstad (28:26.048)
Hahaha

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (28:39.951)
And there’s like an no moment. everything that you had planned goes right out the window. You forget it completely until Wednesday. By Wednesday, you’re still solving the problem. And then the conference is a distant memory. The 24-hour news cycle that was the ICAT Summit is now ancient history. And so it’s really about keeping that education in front of mind. And that’s a big part of what we want to do with GIA.

Caitlin Fjerstad (29:06.444)
Yeah, absolutely. I had a question about kind of the problems that J.J. is trying to solve. You kind of already walked through that, but anything that you want to add to that that we didn’t discuss already?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (29:17.889)
The big problem we want to solve is ITAD is not currently a global empire and not known by everybody on the planet and that’s the biggest problem we want to solve. We want to fix that. If we can do that then we’ve done our job.

Caitlin Fjerstad (29:35.118)
Awesome. Kind of one of the really key things that GIA is working towards is that full industry collaboration. What do you think happens when the industry doesn’t have that collaboration? What do you see as the pitfalls that is allowing you to solve? But if guys, if GIA wasn’t here and we have disjointment between organizations and ITADs and whoever involved, what do you see as really that?

that outcome if J.A. wasn’t here.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (30:07.887)
Yeah, so I think, you know.

One of the things, I credit where credit is due, Certification has really changed the industry between e-Stewards and SERI And I think in some ways the competition between the two has really pushed it to a level that otherwise probably wouldn’t have happened. know, that having been said, GIA is going to be very keen to monitor any conversations that are happening with changes to those certifications to ensure that it’s benefiting ITAD in a meaningful way, right? We’re all for moving those forward and making them better.

Caitlin Fjerstad (30:19.021)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Fjerstad (30:37.038)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (30:39.731)
but it has to impact ITAD in a positive way, right? But, you know, if there isn’t a unifying voice and if there isn’t a kind of a clearinghouse for…

dealing with some of these major issues that, know, dynamic as well-meaning as you guys are. you, like, look, you guys have been amazing partners of the ITAD Summit. And, you know, I had the opportunity to work with Amanda for a long time when I was at ISRI. And you guys have just been thought leaders for a very long time.

Caitlin Fjerstad (31:08.163)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (31:12.559)
That having been said, there are a number of problems that exist in the industry or issues that exist in the industry that we can move forward by bringing voices together and bring thought leaders together across companies and across pieces of the ITAD ecosystem that just can’t happen when everybody, know, when it’s individual companies. And so, you know, I think that’s the biggest thing we, you know, role we can play is facilitating the conversations that when they happen,

Caitlin Fjerstad (31:22.787)
Yeah.

Caitlin Fjerstad (31:34.872)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (31:42.495)
in silos are not effective, right? So, you know, without the GIA, the industry would continue to grow and develop. just think, you know, maybe we’re the turbo boost, we’re the nitrous in this car, right? We have an opportunity to speed it up a little bit.

Caitlin Fjerstad (32:00.716)
Yeah, absolutely. We like moving fast, so we can use that. Wonderful. Anything else you want to hit on in terms of resources that the GIA will have to help enterprises with ITAD or just other resources in general? Yeah, anything you want to touch on there.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (32:20.527)
Yeah, I would say, you know, right now, again, the big thing is, you know, we’re finishing up our first committee calls. We’ve got nine committees with the GIA. you know, that right.

My marching orders are coming directly from the participants in the industry. And we’ve got a ton of stuff that, you know, a nice long to-do list of things that we need to address. And so we’re, we’re going to hit those hard. We do, you know, we’re in the process of developing, as I said, our kind of AI driven tech forward, next generation of, of, networking and business development tools that we’re going to roll out, probably here at Q3, maybe into Q4. but.

Caitlin Fjerstad (32:50.21)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (33:01.853)
I would just say, don’t ignore the show. I the ITAD Summit, ITAD Europe, Mobile Disrupt, if you’re in the mobility space, the opportunity to get together in the room.

Caitlin Fjerstad (33:10.712)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (33:14.257)
The amount of energy that we have seen the last couple of years at those shows, people getting together and just talking through the stuff that is really making business difficult. You know, come out to the shows, meet with your colleagues in the industry, right? I, than other industries I have been in is a, you know, a collaboration among competitors environment, right? Everybody is so keen on just looking at the ways that we can solve problems, particularly

around circularity and material sustainability. So I would say, know, whether it’s…

Caitlin Fjerstad (33:46.99)
Mm-hmm.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (33:53.401)
Mobile Disrupt in the beginning of July or ITAD Summit in the beginning of August. If you haven’t been to one of those shows, come out and just meet the people that are doing the same stuff you are in different parts of the world. Connect, learn some things, have some fun, make some memories and close some business. mean, it’s just, GIA is really great for filling in the other 11 months. But for that one month, there’s no greater tool than being in a room with the people that are doing the same stuff you are and learning from them.

Caitlin Fjerstad (34:22.54)
Yeah, absolutely. You can build those relationships and build those resources. I mean, even between, I know different ITAD vendors when we’ve been at shows and connected with them, it’s just, it’s great to have conversations of like, you’re dealing with this too. Like, how do you work through it? All of that. It just, it’s, it’s so much easier to work through those conversations, how those conversations build the relationships when you’re

together live and then have those resources. Well, you might be competitors, but you have those resources to discuss and have those conversations with even easier once you’ve gone to those conferences. And you guys do a wonderful job facilitating that and providing that space for everybody to come together. Yeah. Great. Wonderful. One thing that I wanted to go back to too. So you mentioned with the GIA Institute that there’s so many different

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (34:59.973)
Well, we love doing it. It’s a lot of fun.

Caitlin Fjerstad (35:11.758)
kind of resources and opportunities of where you’re trying to make an impact and trainings. And I think it’s great to hear what you just talked about of what’s to come. So in kind of getting people excited of how you’re going to continue making that impact, one thing you mentioned is about the workforce and kind of the workforce getting into it. So what advice would you give to either ITAD providers on developing their workforce for the future and how they can help make an impact for enterprises?

or people that are interested in getting into the industry, what kind of advice would you give to them?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (35:46.107)
So for the ITADs, I would say, think strategically about ways that you can interact with youth in the schools, with your local universities or community colleges, in the same way that we have an awareness problem with the community and with a lot of enterprises.

We have an awareness problem with the potential workforce, right? And we can start to create an environment where individuals seeking work, whether that be out of college, out of high school, whether that be second or third career move, right? If individuals are actively seeking out ITAD because it’s cool and it’s fun and it’s tech forward and it’s a safe environment, It’s compared to a lot of the options

opportunities that many of our folks in our workforce would have outside of ITAD. It’s a place where they can come in and they know they’re going home at night with all five fingers and all five toes and they’re going to get to hug their kids, right? And, you know, I think all of these things, we underestimate the value of that stuff. But I think as ITADs and as an industry, we need to do a better job of getting into the schools and really talk about how like how just really how great we are, right? And how cool we are and how fun the stuff we’re doing is and how we’re on the cutting edge.

Caitlin Fjerstad (37:06.008)
Thank you.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (37:09.775)
of like solving tech problems. You know, I think there’s this image that we’re just like, you know, and there is some of this, right? We’re just beating on equipment, taking it apart and putting it in a gaylord and sending it on its way. But I mean, there’s so much we’re doing that’s like really advanced stuff. And we’re not talking about it with a potential workforce. So think that’s number one. And for anybody that’s interested in getting into IT, I just don’t know why you wouldn’t want to, right? For all the reasons I just talked about, you know, it’s an emerging industry that is

Caitlin Fjerstad (37:36.8)
You

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (37:39.587)
is gonna have a legacy impact for generations. And I just think it’s cool to be a part of it. That’s the kind of stuff, know, our generation is really, you know, time and time again has said that impact is more important almost than salary, right?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (37:57.967)
within reason, right? Obviously, everybody likes to get a nice paycheck, but impact is a big part of the conversation, and we really need to push that part of our industry as a reason why people wanna join and be part of it.

Caitlin Fjerstad (37:59.276)
Yeah.

Yes.

Caitlin Fjerstad (38:12.622)
Yeah, I, yeah, I 100 % agree. And I’m granted I’ve been in the industry, so I’m probably biased, but yeah, I think it’s so great that, you know, you’re making an impact and the balance of making an impact, you know, on sustainability and for the earth and for the environment. And then also to what you said that you’re on the cutting edge of technology. And I think it’s great to be part of an industry that is just growing exponentially and the abilities for innovation and change. It’s just so great to be able to be a part of that.

and to have, you know, be able to leave a little bit of your thumbprint on the industry as well and so many opportunities for that. So I fully resonate with what you’re saying and believe that’s the part that I would, I would stake my claim behind too.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (38:56.113)
And, you know, I mean, we’re going to do a workforce development panel at the ITAD summit with three very young participants and the employees of companies in the industry and have a veteran of the industry really kind of moderating the session. So we’re flipping the script and I’m really excited to see how that goes out, right? It’s going to be, it’s just going be really cool.

Caitlin Fjerstad (39:16.152)
Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that’ll be a wonderful one. Yeah. Okay. I’m interested for that now. Great. That’s okay. We’ll stay tuned. Um, well, a couple more last questions here. So with being in the industry for so long, and maybe it’s a little bit of what you just talked about, but what keeps you personally really passionate about the ITAD industry?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (39:23.653)
Don’t ask me what time it is, I don’t know yet.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (39:41.699)
It’s a sustainability piece, right? you know, in my personal life, I’ve got five small children and we have a farm where we do regenerative agriculture. We’re rotational grazing and things like that. Really kind of looking at.

how inputs and outputs can be used exactly like what we’re doing, a circular way, right? And so, I really do, for me, I find a lot of passion around the impact that we can have as an industry. And I find a lot of opportunity to, as you said, put my fingerprints on the direction of the industry. And I’m thankful that I have the platform to do that.

thinking about, you know, my kids, you know, I don’t want to have to have a situation where my kids begrudge our generation for allowing us to run off a material cliff, right? It’s not fair to them. It isn’t something we should saddle them with, in my opinion, and it’s really nice to be a part of the conversation and be a part of the industry that’s helping avoid that, if we can.

Caitlin Fjerstad (40:38.765)
I feel.

Caitlin Fjerstad (40:52.396)
Yeah, I love that. I also love that we’re out so much about you, Darryl. We know that you played the tuba through college, but also not just within your work that you’re making an impact on, sustainability and how kind of we progress in terms of the future generations. But you’re doing that personally too. So you can just see that true connection and that passion. So thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (41:13.969)
Absolutely. Hopefully it’s not too much. You can cut it if you want. I just, you know, it’s, you know, really, I don’t know, I just, I really see all of it kind of connecting and I think it’s important that, you know, it’s a driver in what.

Caitlin Fjerstad (41:17.398)
No.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (41:32.791)
Kind of motivates me to push the GIA forward and I hope people, if nothing else, they walk away from the conversation, whether it’s this podcast or not, you know, a conversation at the ITAD summit. If they walk away and and with the idea that, you know, this guy’s passionate about what we’re doing, then I’ve won the battle, right? And so.

Caitlin Fjerstad (41:50.146)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think the passion just inspires people around you to keep living that mission and keep following you as a leader. So I think the passion is wonderful and you can see that. So I think that’s great.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (42:02.811)
Well, I appreciate that.

Caitlin Fjerstad (42:05.326)
All right, the last question I have here, I always end on another advice question. So what advice would you give to enterprise organizations that are learning about ITAD or trying to enhance their ITAD program?

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (42:08.71)
Yeah.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (42:19.569)
So for enterprises that are learning about ITAD and really acquainting themselves with the ITAD industry

I I mean, it’s a very generic answer, but ask questions, learn, learn what it means. Learn what services are included in the ITAD experience, right? Learn what, what ITAD does, learn where the devices are going, learn how they’re handled, learn how decisions are made about the value in the device and how it can be reused. What markets it can be reused in. Ask questions about how you can maximize value over time, right?

maybe this set of equipment, it’s late for that conversation, right? You’re already moving on from it. But talk to the folks who are the ones making those determinations and figure out how do we make sure that the devices that we are sending downstream, how are those…

you know, how are we able to maximize that value through our purchasing strategies, our replacement strategy, our take back programs, all that stuff.

Caitlin Fjerstad (43:29.048)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Fjerstad (43:37.922)
Yeah. No, that’s wonderful. Thank you. I think that’s so key and I love that. As you said, it can be simple, but it’s so impactful and it’s just a wonderful way to continue learning and advancing. So I think asking questions is spot on and I think that’s a great advice for everybody. So thank you. Wonderful. Well, those are kind of all the questions that I have today and I just really appreciate Darrell, you taking time to

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (43:56.708)
Absolutely.

Caitlin Fjerstad (44:04.344)
Join us and talk through so much about the ITAD industry, where it’s headed, to talk about GIA also and really allow us to learn a little bit more about where it’s at today, but also really exciting stuff to come in the future and to have the opportunity to really bring so many people together in terms of enterprises, ITAD vendors, so many types of individuals, bring them together for this spot to allow for really key collaboration and just advancing the industry in general.

Thank you for your time today. Thank you for your insights and we really appreciate it.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (44:35.387)
Thanks for the platform. appreciate you inviting me. Thanks.

Caitlin Fjerstad (44:38.476)
Wonderful. Well, thanks to all of our listeners and join next time for the Spark Podcast and stay tuned. Thank you everyone.

Darrell Fleming-Kendall (44:46.385)
Thanks guys.